Curse

Martin Alvito · Apr 01, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

What is wrong with the richest people paying more?
I mean, if they don't have enough gold - they need to go out and earn it. Which in return gives them something to do.

No one can earn in-game cash faster than players can buy it with RL cash. And that, sir, IS the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Problem: People want nice rewards.
Solution: Stop failing.

A player that buys or otherwise acquires forty five accounts can easily get more zkeys every month than the winners of the mAT. If you bought all three games and the expansion, you paid around $200. With the current going rate on accounts, you can triple up your initial investment and make money just like you won the mAT.

You failed at making an argument. Stop failing.

@ Tonic OnyX: I can summarize your whole post in nine words: I don't care and I think this argument is stupid. You registered just to post that?

Guess what: it is just a game, but people enjoy it in different ways. The ostensible purpose of XTH may be for people to have fun making predictions, but apparent good intentions on the part of the devs can mask very bad effects. XTH also permits players willing to spend a lot of RL cash to buy up everything of value in the game legally. You think that's fine and just, eh?

Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean that it doesn't affect other people. Wars are fine as long as it's someone else's kids that get killed, amirite? You're using the same logic here. All I've done is change the stakes debated.

go cubs · Apr 01, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Lol crazy arguments....just chill out and don't flame eachother xD

Only gold that xth adds is 300g per key which is max merch price of the stuff

Gli · Apr 01, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

I wonder, one of the platitudes often thrown around on Guru, "if you want something, don't QQ, work for it", will it eventually change to "... don't QQ, buy more XTH accounts"?

upier · Apr 01, 2009, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

XTH isn't against the rules because Anet just recently said it isn't for them but still is for everybody else, even though they previously said it would always be against the rules for everybody. As long as they come out and admit to everybody that they participate in RMT now, I will be happy.

When you purchase a new account you pay for the content that the account provides.
And it's up to the users themselves if they only want to use certain aspects of that content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

No one can earn it faster than players can buy it. And that, sir, IS the problem.

Some people should have certain items - and some shouldn't.
As long as the system caters to the basic needs that keep a player competitive - I am fine with luxury having an insane price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

A player that buys or otherwise acquires forty five accounts can easily get more zkeys every month than the winners of the mAT. If you bought all three games and the expansion, you paid around $200. With the current going rate on accounts, you can triple up your initial investment and make money just like you won the mAT.

You failed at making an argument. Stop failing.

If the guy earns as much by playing mATs as a player can obtain by gambling on 6 accounts - and he feels that he should obtain more - he should start playing better. As you said - the earnings of the best players can only be matched by someone that buys over 40 accounts.
I don't see why he should be rewarded for failing.

Takeko Nakano · Apr 01, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Does it really matter? There haven't been any prediction competitions since September last year. At this rate XTH's impact on GW is just going to keep dropping.

Or has ANet announced that XTH is going to be back soon?

DreamWind · Apr 01, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

When you purchase a new account you pay for the content that the account provides.
And it's up to the users themselves if they only want to use certain aspects of that content.

Since when is RMT considered content? And it doesn't matter if they choose to use it or not...I can choose to use gold sellers or not too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

As long as the system caters to the basic needs that keep a player competitive - I am fine with luxury having an insane price.

It doesn't cater to that anymore. You can't compete with people who spend more money than you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If the guy earns as much by playing mATs as a player can obtain by gambling on 6 accounts - and he feels that he should obtain more - he should start playing better.

Or spending more money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

As you said - the earnings of the best players can only be matched by someone that buys over 40 accounts.
I don't see why he should be rewarded for failing.

I don't see why people should be rewarded for buying more accounts.

moriz · Apr 01, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

can't compete with people who spend more money than you in what way?

DreamWind · Apr 01, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

can't compete with people who spend more money than you in what way?

Competition for people who care about the economy being fair. If you don't care it obviously doesn't apply to you. I personally don't care about it...but I'm surprised more people don't care due to the unfairness of it. It is RMT in the disguise of a game. The worst part is most people don't care about the actual game they are playing, they just want the prize that comes with it.

moriz · Apr 01, 2009, 07:30 PM // 19:30

GW's economy is inherently unfair, even without XTH thrown into the equation. GW was never created with much of an economy in mind, so there are no checks and balances in place to ensure that a person can't accumulate a ton of gold for very little effort. that's been happening since GW's inception, and XTH doesn't change a thing.

Coverticus · Apr 01, 2009, 10:09 PM // 22:09

My 2 penneth worth (having stop posting for a while but what the hell to this).

This is another "cry about the economy" all over again. Yes ok, this is PvP orientated but we've (i.e PvE) have had this all before with the deflation in value of ectos. Only this time, there is a real world business model in place for ANet - more accounts = more cash. They will not get rid of something that brings in revenue to a flagging game that does not generate monthly income for them. So enough of the QQing. This extra revenue can be used for GW1 and development of GW2, so pause for thought there if those of you who wish for GW but are crying about the prices of their keys currently.

Guild Wars has had a broken economy for donkeys years. Some of us have tried (and ultimately failed) to bring some new life into the game with new ideas surrounding this issue but, as so eloquently put earlier in this thread, you are all beating a dead horse here.

Each person is entilted to a.) get the keys and b.) do what they wish with them. If they use, fine. If they sell, fine. Welcome to the world of crappy GW trading. Ectos used to be 10k plus each, now they are 4k ish. All due to PvE over farming with over powered builds and skills (permaform can be done by any Joe really, so it is kinda free cash there). PvP now has the same issues with Keys and too many accounts being used.

XTH is here to stay - deal with it.

Thankyou.

PS: DragonRogue - enjoyed some of your comments here! Hope life is well for you.

DreamWind · Apr 01, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

GW's economy is inherently unfair, even without XTH thrown into the equation. GW was never created with much of an economy in mind, so there are no checks and balances in place to ensure that a person can't accumulate a ton of gold for very little effort. that's been happening since GW's inception, and XTH doesn't change a thing.

What you say about GW not created with much of an economy in mind is true...but I do not see how it is inherently unfair. The checks and balances is supposed to be part of the overall game balance (like nerfing degenerate builds). But even if it is unfair (which I argue it isn't), why make it even MORE unfair? What is not debateable is it is certainly unfair when players are able to get in game stuff for out of game stuff, which is why Anet tries to get rid of that practice and which is why it is stupid that they made XTH.

XTH changes everything because it is the first step in desensitizing people to what is actually happening. If GW2 had full scale Anet sponsered RMT it would not shock me in the slightest.

upier · Apr 01, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Since when is RMT considered content? And it doesn't matter if they choose to use it or not...I can choose to use gold sellers or not too.

You are taking part in a gambling game. That's part of the game.
Unless of course you want to argue that just buying an additional account leads to a guaranteed income (outside of the 1 Z-key of course). In which case - I'd argue that the guaranteed income is a sign of skill, which should be rewarded. (Yours truly placed RAWR on the first place in the last mAT. Guess who won't be getting those 100 points this month ...)

Gold sellers are against the rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

It doesn't cater to that anymore. You can't compete with people who spend more money than you.

Actually, it goes even further.
People have more money, but the prices are locked. Thus everything that is keeping a player competitive is relatively cheaper - unless of course the mats needed had a spike in their price.
My PvP guys are MUCH more competitive then my PvE guys. And they get everything for free.
Unless of course, like previously noted, we are dealing with luxury items. Which are pretty much defined by not being accessible to everyone. And the XTH doesn't change anything about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Or spending more money.

Like I said - if he sucks, he is always welcome to play the XTH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I don't see why people should be rewarded for buying more accounts.

That's the content you pay for.
That's like saying that a person can not use his second account as storage because that wouldn't be fair to the guys that only have one account.

go cubs · Apr 01, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

Does it really matter? There haven't been any prediction competitions since September last year. At this rate XTH's impact on GW is just going to keep dropping.

Or has ANet announced that XTH is going to be back soon?

Every month you can make predictions in xth if that's what u mean

esthetic · Apr 02, 2009, 03:01 AM // 03:01

ANet.. a real life company like all other for profit companies has a goal to conduct business to make money.

Guild Wars, a game they sell which offers an online experience. The more games they sell the more money they make. With the current model of no monthly dues, they can make more money only by selling more copies to either new people or existing customers.

ANet has indicated that it is not going to do more campaigns for GW1 but will roll out GW2 in a year or so.

GW has been on the market for 4 years with three campaigns and one expansion so it has pretty much sold its game to the people in their market niche trying to get more new people to buy GW1 would probably cost more than the profit it would generate.

So, the logical way is to get its current base to spend more real life money on the game. How does Anet do this without having to spend googles of time and money adding a campaign? I am no software geek but I think adding another campaign to this maze that is GW would seem to be an enormous and unprofitable task.

So print your own currency by making more accounts and make them attractive to potential buyers by adding XTH. You also get the benefit of discouraging third party gold farmers that buy and hack accounts for their bots and sell gold to existing customers. Customers will buy an account use XTH rather than pay an off shore gold farmer.

So we know the positive impact what is the down side? Possibly altering the guild wars economy? Keys are worth like on average 300 gp and adding to your title. So if someone spent $100.00 on five accounts they will get 100zkeys on average every month that is about 30,000 gp. If the player gave the $100.00 to a gold farmer the farmer will use bots to make more ectos and gold which will introduce about 1,000,000 gp to the game. Since the monthly XTH is recurring, you do introduce 30,000 every month so in three years you will introduce about 1,000,000 gp in the game. So the negative impact of XTH to the game economy does not hold water.

What or who is really affected by XTH? Gold Farmers, people who sell to gold farmers, and those few that accumulated a huge fortune seeing inflation eat away at their buying power.

Michman · Apr 02, 2009, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Ithorian I

My point is theres no risk/reward for XTH only reward - and by doing so this drives down the prices of zkeys which in turn means the reward for the people actually playing the MAT is reduced.

Why do you think guilds and HB players change names and play in smurfs ? - they dont want you to guess correctly because your directly affecting there reward which they >>> EARN <<<

You know I've sat and read thru all 16 pages of this drivel of PVP vs PVE, haves vs have nots, OMG Anet lied to us because their RMT and that suxxors and I'm not leaving till they admit it, XTH is killing the economy, yada yada, yada. But the above post is just one example of some of the lame thinking that goes on in these forums. So I'll address it first before we move on to some of the other stuff.

When the Zaishen title was started z-keys were selling for 2k..1.8k, occasionally 1.5k. Who had them all? PVPer's. When demand outweighed supply the price rose to 5k per key. Along came XTH with a chance for people to get their own z-keys. Being a grandfather I'm often surprised by how important it is for some people to have the best pixels in a video game. I prefer taking my grandkids to the zoo, the park, the movies, so I'll save my money for the things that are important to me. Those that choose to waste (my opinion) real money on new accounts to get epeen are welcome to do so. It doesn't affect my playing GW and it certainly doesn't affect my real life. And the only affect it has had on PVPer's is that they continue to make double what they were prior to XTH predictions. God I feel so sorry for them.

As to why PVPer's change their name, tank their rank, play on others accounts, etc, I'm sure there are some that do it for the reason you stated. There has always been a rift between PVP/PVE for some people. If it were black/white you'd call it a racist thing. It's there because people think their way is the best and anything else is inferior. And if you ask a lot of PVPer's why they do those things they'll tell you they don't want to be "buildwars", and most of them are lying about that too. If there was one superpowered build that couldn't be beaten it would be on pvxwiki and every single pvper would use it and the people that had the most skill would win every tournament. The real reason people do those things are to get an advantage in the tournament. If your name is Mary and you change it to Sue you get no advantage in the tournament because Mary and Sue have the same rank and they still get similar ranked opponents. If you tank your rank you get to start off playing your first few matches against those ranked #1000-25000 most of whom can't control 3 heroes much less make them function together well enough to win a match. If your a top ranked player and you play on someone else's account the only people that know are your buddies, the same ones you tie with so they'll make top 16 like the 12 ties that happened in the 1v1 monthly this past weekend...including 5 from the top 3 finishers. So it's not so much to hide from people so they don't get z-keys as it is cheat their way to the top. Because anything you do that changes the outcome of the tournament is in violation of the rules. And about your statement that most of the people make their XTH predictions from others picks on the forum...many of those here that are calling for XTH to be removed are PVPer's that can be found on those monthly prediction threads saying "here's my picks" and using their multiply accounts in XTH too.

1v1 needs help. But instead of you children QQing to mommy (Anet) about it maybe you should clean up your own mess (cheating).
My perception of PVP is that it's about competition and being the best, not being the one that can cheat their way to a win.

On to other things. Powertraders have existed in GW since it began. Powertraders will alway exist in games that have things that players want. Powertraders get off on having everything you want while they look down their noses at you and tell you that you can't have it. Personally I'd rather get laid than spend 24/7 in Kamadan trying to get some noob to sell me something so I can resell it for whatever inflated price I get and run to the forums to brag about how good I am.

The whole point of which is if you weren't here when GW started your way behind the powertraders and most of the masses, and no amount of z-keys will catch you up. GW is much like any other game in that they let items be the most important thing in the economy instead of platinum/gold. If players had unlimited gold items like ecto wouldn't control the game and armbraces wouldn't be duped. Would there still be powertraders? Sure and there would still be items you couldn't afford...get used to it, when you finally come out into the real world you'll find things you can't afford there either.

Anet changes a skill some people like it...others complain.
Anet releases minipets some people like them...others wanted different ones.
Anet adds a bonus mission pack some people bought it and got the bonus weapons that were a reward for ordering it online...others complained they didn't get the weapons because they bought it at the store.
Anet makes something for PVPers...PVEers complain.
Anet bans people for duping...people complain it wasn't enough or they shouldn't have been banned.
Anet trys to stop bots...some people appreciate the effort, others still see bots so it's not enough.
Anet trys to stop RMT, people say their doing it themselves and you lied to us.
When you buy this game you actually just lease the right to use the content that Anet provides. Anything you've gotten since in just a bonus from Anet to keep you satisfied. No one can satisfy 5 million people. And if Anet is making real money because of XTH wouldn't you rather it be them than the 10-13 year old Chinese and Korean kids? Any profit that Anet makes is available to make GW and GW2 better. What do you get from the online sites that RMT after you've given them your $110.00. Absolutely nothing.

Finally my own opinion on XTH. I'm a PVEer and I watch PVP. I don't do PVP because I don't have the time to commit that it takes to become proficent and I don't like doing things halfassed. I do know enough to make reasonably decent predictions and I do make about 40-50 zkeys a month on my 2 accounts. Did I hurt anyone getting those zkeys? No. I used them to by armor/weapons for my Hall of Monuments. Did it affect the economy? No. Are there others that in my opinion abuse it? There are others that will abuse anything they get the chance to so why would this be any different. Do I think it should be eliminated? No.

If you took the time to read this whole thing I'm thankful and sorry I may have rambled on to much. But sometimes you just have to get stuff off your chest.

A couple of days ago a policeman answering a 911 call in a town not far from me walked in on a young boy as he decapitated his 5 year old sister, another sister was already dead on the floor. As he entered the apartment the boy ran into the bathroom and started stabbing his 3rd sister. The policeman shot and killed him. Both sisters and their brother were buried together today.

And here you sit bitching about a video game.

FoxBat · Apr 02, 2009, 05:25 AM // 05:25

Right now guild wars needs people to PvP period, not to play in mATs. Getting people to follow the GvG scene is going to do that a heck of a lot better than mAT winners getting an extra K per key.

Anyway I don't see how anyone could reasonably believe they have the option to take it away after letting players have it. So there isn't any fruit from discussing whether it should be removed or not.

DreamWind · Apr 02, 2009, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You are taking part in a gambling game. That's part of the game.

LoL...so now its just a gambling game? How many things are people going to call XTH to make it sound ok? Ok then...if Anet released a new buyable "content pack" with a god mode ability in it would that be ok too? I am honestly tired of some of the arguments in this thread...most people are either just saying "it is here to stay deal with it" or "Anet can do whatever they want deal with it". FINE! So why don't they come out and admit to us that they changed their stance on RMT (not to mention just about everything else with the game but we'll leave it to RMT for the context of this thread) instead of hiding behind the "game content" that is XTH.

Also if you are claiming that the content is gambling. The problem with this theory is that there is no risk for the purchaser of the content. Gambling by definition has a risk and a reward, and XTH has no risk. So that theory is out the window as far as I'm concerned.

Also...if XTH is a game of "content skill", why is it that almost nobody (judging from forum posts anyways don't give me this "I can't possibly know" crap) cares about the actual skill part of the game and only cares about the reward they are going to get.

Finally, go type Xunlai Trading House into google and see the first word that pops up. You guessed it...Real Money Trading. I guess even Google agrees with me at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Gold sellers are against the rules.

No...RMT was against the rules until Anet made XTH.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

My PvP guys are MUCH more competitive then my PvE guys. And they get everything for free.

Everyone should get everything for free, but that would go off topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Unless of course, like previously noted, we are dealing with luxury items. Which are pretty much defined by not being accessible to everyone. And the XTH doesn't change anything about that.

Uh yes it does...I can spend real life money to more easily get in game luxury items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Like I said - if he sucks, he is always welcome to play the XTH.

If he sucks he should get better. He shouldn't be allowed to backdoor out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That's like saying that a person can not use his second account as storage because that wouldn't be fair to the guys that only have one account.

Technically that is true (because the accounts should be linked and storage should be massive). But I won't go that far. I will say there is a big difference between XTH and storage (that I hope you can see by now). One is abusive and one is simply people trying to get around the game inadequacies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

When you buy this game you actually just lease the right to use the content that Anet provides. Anything you've gotten since in just a bonus from Anet to keep you satisfied. No one can satisfy 5 million people. And if Anet is making real money because of XTH wouldn't you rather it be them than the 10-13 year old Chinese and Korean kids?

I actually agree with much of your post...I just have to point out a couple things. You talk about nobody getting hurt with XTH and that may be true. The bigger issue here is that the game has been hurt and nobody seems to care because they get free stuff. The integrity of this game has gone down the toilet, and XTH is just icing on the cake. But hey as long as everybody gets free keys its all right!

You bring up a good point though...I would rather give money to Anet than Chinese sweat shops. The problem? Anet explicitly said they would not do this (that is the reason gold farmers are being hunted down) and they would not do a lot of other things they did to their game. If they came out and said they changed their stance on all of these things I wouldn't care anymore, but I am not going to sit here like a carebear thinking everything Anet does is wonderful. They have done some great things, but this is not one of them until they say they changed their mind on RMT. Kind of like if they came out and said their philosophy is no longer skill>time I would accept that as well.

You also claim that everything we get is just a bonus, and that is fine. But what about the promises made to me before I purchased the game that are no longer in effect? Are you going to hide behind "online experience may change" to explain that away? What should I as a customer feel if I was made promises by a company, spent money on that company, only to have the promises taken away? Should I trust that company with my money in the future or would I be better off spending it on gold farmers for fun? (Not that I would do such a thing its just an example).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

The American and the world economies are teetering on the edge of depression. Millions of children go hungry everyday. And not just in some jungle thousands of miles from where you live, many are right here in the U.S.

And here you sit bitching about a video game.

Actually I top about those topics you mention on other forums...where it belongs. This is a Guild Wars forum, where people come to talk about Guild Wars, and rightfully so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Anyway I don't see how anyone could reasonably believe they have the option to take it away after letting players have it. So there isn't any fruit from discussing whether it should be removed or not.

There is philosophical fruit. Let me put it this way...IF Anet gave us a 10 million damage skill and everybody loved blasting the crap out of enemies, would they be able to take it away even though it was bad for the game?

NEway...I won't be able to respond to any posts for a little while because I'm going on vacation, but have fun thinking about this.

tmakinen · Apr 02, 2009, 06:25 AM // 06:25

XTH makes people buy new accounts and new accounts bring real money to ANet which consequently is able to maintain GW and develop GW2. Therefore, XTH is a good thing.

People who accuse ANet of RMT'ing don't realize exactly why gold sellers are banned. The main reason is that gold sellers are selling goods that are not theirs but this argument cannot be applied to ANet since they do own all of it. An additional reason is that an excessive/uncontrollable influx of gold is bad for the game. This argument doesn't apply to XTH either. The only way to create gold through XTH is to sell equipment to merchant, and factoring in the drop probabilities and merchant prices of rare items it comes out at around 150g per Z-key. Considering the per account monthly cap of Z-keys from XTH this is neither excessive nor uncontrollable.

And finally, all skills and perfect equipment are easily obtainable with or without taking part in XTH, so it doesn't give an unfair advantage over other players. If somebody wants to polish his e-peen with real money then by all means let him do so, it's not taking anything from you. Or do you get mad at ANet for releasing collector's editions where, with a little extra money, some people get more shiny things in game than the rest?

wu is me · Apr 02, 2009, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michman

(A)You know I've sat and read thru all 16 pages of this drivel of PVP vs PVE, haves vs have nots, OMG Anet lied to us because their RMT and that suxxors and I'm not leaving till they admit it, XTH is killing the economy, yada yada, yada. But the above post is just one example of some of the lame thinking that goes on in these forums. So I'll address it first before we move on to some of the other stuff.

When the Zaishen title was started z-keys were selling for 2k..1.8k, occasionally 1.5k. Who had them all? PVPer's. When demand outweighed supply the price rose to 5k per key. (c)Along came XTH with a chance for people to get their own z-keys. (B)Being a grandfather I'm often surprised by how important it is for some people to have the best pixels in a video game. I prefer taking my grandkids to the zoo, the park, the movies, so I'll save my money for the things that are important to me. Those that choose to waste (my opinion) real money on new accounts to get epeen are welcome to do so. It doesn't affect my playing GW and it certainly doesn't affect my real life. And the only affect it has had on PVPer's is that they continue to make double what they were prior to XTH predictions. God I feel so sorry for them.

As to why PVPer's change their name, tank their rank, play on others accounts, etc, I'm sure there are some that do it for the reason you stated. There has always been a rift between PVP/PVE for some people. If it were black/white you'd call it a racist thing. It's there because people think their way is the best and anything else is inferior. And if you ask a lot of PVPer's why they do those things they'll tell you they don't want to be "buildwars", and most of them are lying about that too. If there was one superpowered build that couldn't be beaten it would be on pvxwiki and every single pvper would use it and the people that had the most skill would win every tournament. The real reason people do those things are to get an advantage in the tournament. If your name is Mary and you change it to Sue you get no advantage in the tournament because Mary and Sue have the same rank and they still get similar ranked opponents. If you tank your rank you get to start off playing your first few matches against those ranked #1000-25000 most of whom can't control 3 heroes much less make them function together well enough to win a match. If your a top ranked player and you play on someone else's account the only people that know are your buddies, the same ones you tie with so they'll make top 16 like the 12 ties that happened in the 1v1 monthly this past weekend...including 5 from the top 3 finishers. So it's not so much to hide from people so they don't get z-keys as it is cheat their way to the top. Because anything you do that changes the outcome of the tournament is in violation of the rules. And about your statement that most of the people make their XTH predictions from others picks on the forum...many of those here that are calling for XTH to be removed are PVPer's that can be found on those monthly prediction threads saying "here's my picks" and using their multiply accounts in XTH too.

1v1 needs help. But instead of you children QQing to mommy (Anet) about it maybe you should clean up your own mess (cheating).
My perception of PVP is that it's about competition and being the best, not being the one that can cheat their way to a win.

On to other things. Powertraders have existed in GW since it began. Powertraders will alway exist in games that have things that players want. Powertraders get off on having everything you want while they look down their noses at you and tell you that you can't have it. (b)Personally I'd rather get laid than spend 24/7 in Kamadan trying to get some noob to sell me something so I can resell it for whatever inflated price I get and run to the forums to brag about how good I am.

The whole point of which is if you weren't here when GW started your way behind the powertraders and most of the masses, and no amount of z-keys will catch you up. GW is much like any other game in that they let items be the most important thing in the economy instead of platinum/gold. If players had unlimited gold items like ecto wouldn't control the game and armbraces wouldn't be duped. Would there still be powertraders? Sure and there would still be items you couldn't afford...get used to it, when you finally come out into the real world you'll find things you can't afford there either.

Anet changes a skill some people like it...others complain.
Anet releases minipets some people like them...others wanted different ones.
Anet adds a bonus mission pack some people bought it and got the bonus weapons that were a reward for ordering it online...others complained they didn't get the weapons because they bought it at the store.
Anet makes something for PVPers...PVEers complain.
Anet bans people for duping...people complain it wasn't enough or they shouldn't have been banned.
Anet trys to stop bots...some people appreciate the effort, others still see bots so it's not enough.
Anet trys to stop RMT, people say their doing it themselves and you lied to us.
When you buy this game you actually just lease the right to use the content that Anet provides. Anything you've gotten since in just a bonus from Anet to keep you satisfied. No one can satisfy 5 million people. And if Anet is making real money because of XTH (d)wouldn't you rather it be them than the 10-13 year old Chinese and Korean kids? Any profit that Anet makes is available to make GW and GW2 better. What do you get from the online sites that RMT after you've given them your $110.00. Absolutely nothing.

Finally my own opinion on XTH. I'm a PVEer and I watch PVP. I don't do PVP because I don't have the time to commit that it takes to become proficent and I don't like doing things halfassed. I do know enough to make reasonably decent predictions and I do make about 40-50 zkeys a month on my 2 accounts. (c)Did I hurt anyone getting those zkeys? No. I used them to by armor/weapons for my Hall of Monuments. Did it affect the economy? No. Are there others that in my opinion abuse it? There are others that will abuse anything they get the chance to so why would this be any different. Do I think it should be eliminated? No.

If you took the time to read this whole thing I'm thankful and sorry I may have rambled on to much. But sometimes you just have to get stuff off your chest.

A couple of days ago a policeman answering a 911 call in a town not far from me walked in on a young boy as he decapitated his 5 year old sister, another sister was already dead on the floor. As he entered the apartment the boy ran into the bathroom and started stabbing his 3rd sister. The policeman shot and killed him. Both sisters and their brother were buried together today.

The American and the world economies are teetering on the edge of depression. (d)Millions of children go hungry everyday. And not just in some jungle thousands of miles from where you live, many are right here in the U.S.

(A)And here you sit bitching about a video game.

I sense a great deal of inconsistency in your post lol (compare points A B and D) As for points C... well sigh i cbf explaining haha.

Michman · Apr 02, 2009, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

No...RMT was against the rules until Anet made XTH.

RMT was against the rules for players per the EULA which they signed and which is owned by Anet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Uh yes it does...I can spend real life money to more easily get in game luxury items.

Instead of spending real life money on a way to make zkeys to get in game gold to buy luxury items just give the powertraders real life money...probably cheaper and a lot quicker. Yeah I know also against the EULA which you signed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I actually agree with much of your post...I just have to point out a couple things. You talk about nobody getting hurt with XTH and that may be true. The bigger issue here is that the game has been hurt and nobody seems to care because they get free stuff. The integrity of this game has gone down the toilet, and XTH is just icing on the cake. But hey as long as everybody gets free keys its all right!

Exactly how has XTH hurt the game? I understand your point about it hurting Anet's integrity if indeed it was put in place exclusively to make money for Anet. But Anet says this wasn't the case and as much as you and others "know" that it was you have no proof of that? According to half the people on this forum GW is a dead or dying game. Anet added new content with the zaishen title so that everyone could have a chance for an emote. They added predictions in XTH so everyone could get zkeys easier. Yet yours and others contention is that Anet knew every live at home 25-30 yr old momma's boy was going to run out and buy $100-$500 worth of a dying game to make a lot of zkeys. Hardly seems what I would suspect if I had a dying game and wasn't adding anything new. And quite frankly I'd be willing to bet more of the accounts being used for XTH predictions are accounts of former players that have left the game than new accounts being purchased. And most of those probably weren't paid for and even if they were Anet never saw dime one from it the second time around. Our former guild leader has 10 such accounts given to him by those that quit Farm Wars, Grind Wars, Inbalanced Wars or whatever reason they decided they no longer wanted to play the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You bring up a good point though...I would rather give money to Anet than Chinese sweat shops. The problem? Anet explicitly said they would not do this (that is the reason gold farmers are being hunted down) and they would not do a lot of other things they did to their game. If they came out and said they changed their stance on all of these things I wouldn't care anymore, but I am not going to sit here like a carebear thinking everything Anet does is wonderful. They have done some great things, but this is not one of them until they say they changed their mind on RMT. Kind of like if they came out and said their philosophy is no longer skill>time I would accept that as well.

Could you please give me a list of the "lot of other things they did to their game", and why you think they would purposely do those things if they hurt their product?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You also claim that everything we get is just a bonus, and that is fine. But what about the promises made to me before I purchased the game that are no longer in effect? Are you going to hide behind "online experience may change" to explain that away? What should I as a customer feel if I was made promises by a company, spent money on that company, only to have the promises taken away? Should I trust that company with my money in the future or would I be better off spending it on gold farmers for fun? (Not that I would do such a thing its just an example).

I'm not sure where you got promises from Anet before you bought their game. I have all 3 campaigns and the expansion and no where on the box does it say "Anet promises". And yes it does say "online experience may change" as it should, because if it didn't and they added content or changed something someone didn't agree with they would be complaining about it like has happened since this game began and will continue right on into whatever next game people that like to bitch play.

Like I said in my previous post you can't please everybody, but it's the squeaky wheel that get's all the grease. Those that think these forums are the majority of the community are really mistaken. The real majority just don't QQ loud enough.